Organic pesticide. Please share your experiences

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M Farooq
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Re: help

Post by M Farooq » October 23rd, 2013, 11:13 am

Mustansir Billah wrote:... the problem is there is no complete food cycle in plants i.e one insect will come but its predator will not and gradually that insects population will increase and harms the plant.
Dear Mustansir you have raised a very good and a balanced point. It would be sheer foolishness not to do anything when a domestic plant is attacked by harmful pests or diseases thinking that Mother Nature will take care of it, because as you said the insects may overpower the plant. On the other hand, it is a bigger folly to use harsh pesticides for every minor problem. As they say in English "Don't use a sledgehammer to kill an ant". So good practices, especially in domestic gardens, start from the least harmful approach. By harmful I mean harmful to the environment and yourself. No pesticide is human-friendly. The simplest approach is that you manually remove the diseased part. Then one may try so many tested recipes mentioned here ranging from Neem water, reetha water, boiled garlic water, soap solution etc. And if these recipes are not working, then get an advice from someone who knows about the pest and appropriate pesticide. Disease identification is critical before the indiscriminate use of chemicals. If nothing is working i.e. the disease comes back again it means that the plant is really weak. It is time to replace it with a healthy plant.

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Re: Organic pesticide. Please share your experiences

Post by mikhurram » October 23rd, 2013, 9:29 pm

I have noticed that organic pesticides are not effecting against White Fly and Mealy Bugs. I even bought an organic pesticide for Mealy Bugs introduced by Vitex based in U.K. priced exhorbitantly at Rs 2000 and proved to be in-effective. For White Fly i have noticed a product launched by Willaim Sinclair based in UK consisting of Yellow Glue stripes that may prove to be effective.

Overall organic pesticides are effective but are not particularly effective against Mealy Bugs and White Fly. That is my experience and i might be wrong about their effectiveness against Mealy Bugs and White Fly.

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Re: Organic pesticide. Please share your experiences

Post by dragoonsers » October 23rd, 2013, 10:31 pm

I have only used one organic source ie. Neem. We have a huge huge huge tree outside and I collected fresh leaves and used em. They did stop pests in the sense they didn't spread but they weren't dying either. So i bought some neem oil and used it and it was much more effective.

Although imho I'm against people advocating chillis, garlic other edible items to crush and spray. They may have potential, but in a poor country like ours, to think I would crush 1kg of red chillis, or garlic to use on my plants seems as a waste of a precious commodity.

Just my two cents- Chemicals are harmful and very useful. Yes insecticides are poison (they kill obviously-insects) and are toxic. It is foolish in this age to not use chemicals for our benefit. Yes they are harmful to the environment, to insects, to people IF ABUSED (overuse, misuse etc). As Farooq sb said "Disease identification is critical before the indiscriminate use of chemicals." This is what I've learnt being a medical student as well. Trying to draw an analogy here lol. Its like acetominophen (panadol) some of us use casually. Overuse and you'll have liver failure. Am I getting my point across?

Haha. So it's a two-edged sword. If you use chemicals wisely, you'll be better off and so will nature.

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Re: Organic pesticide. Please share your experiences

Post by M Farooq » October 23rd, 2013, 11:37 pm

Some very valid points have been raised. The most dangerous trend is that we suggest others just from the pictures posted here that XYZ pesticide should be used to cure their plants. Unfortunately I had experienced a life threatening situation as a child because some had thrown a pesticide bottle carelessly near our house and I smelled the bottle or my mouth touched it...don't remember anyway it was a real nightmare. This is an acute effect, what is not known with any chemical is its chronic effect...i.e. what happens if we are exposed with very very low dosages for say 25 years ...what diseases do we develop as a result of this chronic exposure by spraying it on our fruits and vegetables?

The worst case example is that of DDT. DDT was advertised as a safe pesticide, once Youtube works in PK, see the 1947 advertisement ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtcXXbuR244) which implies that it is so safe that you can eat it. Literally, they show it spraying on food items. Now it turns out that even after 50-60 years, it did not degrade in the environment. It damaged birds, the egg shells became thin, it accumulated in the fatty tissues of animals (including humans) and so on. Now it is banned worldwide except in certain parts of the world where mosquitoes are rampant.

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Re: Organic pesticide. Please share your experiences

Post by Mustansir Billah » October 24th, 2013, 12:20 am

M Farooq wrote:Some very valid points have been raised. The most dangerous trend is that we suggest others just from the pictures posted here that XYZ pesticide should be used to cure their plants. Unfortunately I had experienced a life threatening situation as a child because some had thrown a pesticide bottle carelessly near our house and I smelled the bottle or my mouth touched it...don't remember anyway it was a real nightmare. This is an acute effect, what is not known with any chemical is its chronic effect...i.e. what happens if we are exposed with very very low dosages for say 25 years ...what diseases do we develop as a result of this chronic exposure by spraying it on our fruits and vegetables?

The worst case example is that of DDT. DDT was advertised as a safe pesticide, once Youtube works in PK, see the 1947 advertisement ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtcXXbuR244) which implies that it is so safe that you can eat it. Literally, they show it spraying on food items. Now it turns out that even after 50-60 years, it did not degrade in the environment. It damaged birds, the egg shells became thin, it accumulated in the fatty tissues of animals (including humans) and so on. Now it is banned worldwide except in certain parts of the world where mosquitoes are rampant.
JazakAllah Farooq sb. I always go for organic pesticide but if it does not works then I spray Inorganic.

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Re: Organic pesticide. Please share your experiences

Post by Mustansir Billah » October 24th, 2013, 12:21 am

dragoonsers wrote:I have only used one organic source ie. Neem. We have a huge huge huge tree outside and I collected fresh leaves and used em. They did stop pests in the sense they didn't spread but they weren't dying either. So i bought some neem oil and used it and it was much more effective.

Although imho I'm against people advocating chillis, garlic other edible items to crush and spray. They may have potential, but in a poor country like ours, to think I would crush 1kg of red chillis, or garlic to use on my plants seems as a waste of a precious commodity.

Just my two cents- Chemicals are harmful and very useful. Yes insecticides are poison (they kill obviously-insects) and are toxic. It is foolish in this age to not use chemicals for our benefit. Yes they are harmful to the environment, to insects, to people IF ABUSED (overuse, misuse etc). As Farooq sb said "Disease identification is critical before the indiscriminate use of chemicals." This is what I've learnt being a medical student as well. Trying to draw an analogy here lol. Its like acetominophen (panadol) some of us use casually. Overuse and you'll have liver failure. Am I getting my point across?

Haha. So it's a two-edged sword. If you use chemicals wisely, you'll be better off and so will nature.
Hmm very nice Idea I have heard of neem oil often on this forum but Is it work? Besides What are you using for your Roses Mites?

M Farooq
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Re: Organic pesticide. Please share your experiences

Post by M Farooq » October 24th, 2013, 12:50 am

Mustansir Billah wrote:
M Farooq wrote: The worst case example is that of DDT. DDT was advertised as a safe pesticide, once Youtube works in PK, see the 1947 advertisement ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtcXXbuR244) which implies that it is so safe that you can eat it. Literally, they show it spraying on food items. Now it turns out that even after 50-60 years, it did not degrade in the environment. It damaged birds, the egg shells became thin, it accumulated in the fatty tissues of animals (including humans) and so on. Now it is banned worldwide except in certain parts of the world where mosquitoes are rampant.
JazakAllah Farooq sb. I always go for organic pesticide but if it does not works then I spray Inorganic.
Dear Mustansir, the term "organic" in this context is a fancy and fashionable word...which has nothing to do with science or chemistry. It is a merely a marketing terminology to show limited use of man-made chemicals on agricultural items. Anything labelled organic is typically more expensive than a normal item. Thus "organic" pesticides are far more expensive than ordinary pesticides.

If you wish to use scientific terminology, all pesticides including DDT or Neem water are organic compounds (with few exceptions) because they have chains of carbon atoms. Inorganic would imply only minerals like copper sulfate-lime based materials.

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Re: Organic pesticide. Please share your experiences

Post by dragoonsers » October 24th, 2013, 11:36 am

Do not confuse organic and inorganic.. In chemistry as Mr. Farooq said, organic are those compounds with carbon skeletons, and inorganic are mineral salts etc.

"Organically grown" food is food grown and processed using no SYNTHETIC fertilizers or pesticides" -USDA.

In agriculture/horticulture terms, organic is something that is natural and has not been tampered with eg. Neem Oil is obtained from leaves and sprayed. However it also includes copper and sulfur fungicides as these are obtained from "nature" and not tempered with. A lady I knew was against me when I asked her to use a copper based fertilizer ie. make bordeux mixture. Little did she know it was organic.

On the other hand, inorganic substances are those which have been tampered with and they include the common available chemicals eg. mancozeb dithane chloropyrophos etc. So although Mancozeb may be "organic" in chemistry, it is inorganic as it is synthetic/not available naturally. Hope that eases the confusion.

Lastly, this semester during a lecture in Forensics/Toxicology, the professor asked "What makes any substance a poison?". We, the students, replied it should be toxic, easily available, be able to kill, easy to give etc etc. After a while the professor said you guys are missing the big picture. "The intent, with which a substance is given, is what makes it a poison". Hope that gets my point across.

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Re: Organic pesticide. Please share your experiences

Post by dragoonsers » October 24th, 2013, 11:37 am


Izhar
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Re: Organic pesticide. Please share your experiences

Post by Izhar » October 24th, 2013, 12:16 pm

dragoonsers wrote:Lastly, this semester during a lecture in Forensics/Toxicology, the professor asked "What makes any substance a poison?". We, the students, replied it should be toxic, easily available, be able to kill, easy to give etc etc. After a while the professor said you guys are missing the big picture. "The intent, with which a substance is given, is what makes it a poison". Hope that gets my point across.
main gurr kha k mar janwaan :shock:

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