Roses in soil-less medium

Moderator: Izhar

mikhurram
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1331
Joined: August 27th, 2012, 9:08 pm
Country: Pakistan
City: Lahore
Gardening Interests: Rose, Iris, Daylilies, Bulbs, Rhizomes, Perennial flowers & Fragrant plants.

Re: Roses in soil-less medium

Post by mikhurram » May 24th, 2016, 1:29 pm

Interesting information.

Peat, Perlite, Vermicultie, Pine bark are expensive mediums which will add considerably to the cost. Also there is heavy reliance on usage of fertlizers. I fertilize my roses only 4 times in an year as doing more can weaken their immunity against diseases even though Potassium tends to build immunity against diseases.

Izhar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4115
Joined: April 11th, 2011, 9:38 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant plants, shade gardening, bulbous plants, annuals
Location: Karachi, Sindh

Re: Roses in soil-less medium

Post by Izhar » May 24th, 2016, 2:27 pm

mikhurram wrote:Interesting information.

Peat, Perlite, Vermicultie, Pine bark are expensive mediums which will add considerably to the cost. Also there is heavy reliance on usage of fertlizers. I fertilize my roses only 4 times in an year as doing more can weaken their immunity against diseases even though Potassium tends to build immunity against diseases.
Peat, Perlite and Vermiculite are not used in the mix proposed by rosarians.. correct use of fertilizer enhances the immunity and vigor.. which is evident from the pictures posted...

Izhar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4115
Joined: April 11th, 2011, 9:38 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant plants, shade gardening, bulbous plants, annuals
Location: Karachi, Sindh

Re: Roses in soil-less medium

Post by Izhar » May 25th, 2016, 12:16 pm

Another point I want to elaborate that they dont use manure or compost... only vermicompost, which is free from weed seeds and completely composted...

MOHAN SINGH
Posts: 181
Joined: December 3rd, 2015, 6:09 pm
Country: INDIA
City: LUDHIANA
Gardening Interests: Novice gardener trying annuals on my new terrace container garden.

Re: Roses in soil-less medium

Post by MOHAN SINGH » May 25th, 2016, 2:42 pm

the one sold in the market is normally vermicompost.. or are both readily available.. hw are they different?

Syed Adnan
Donor
Donor
Posts: 724
Joined: February 21st, 2012, 3:32 pm
Country: Australia
City: Darwin
Gardening Interests: Bulbs, Tubers, Climbers, Annuals, Orchids,
Location: Darwin, Australia

Re: Roses in soil-less medium

Post by Syed Adnan » May 26th, 2016, 4:21 am

Another Point:

Potting Mix consists of 3 major components:

1. Water Holding : Peat, Coir, Clay, Wood, Bark etc.
2. Air Holding : Sand, Pearlite, Vermiculite, crushed stone etc.
3. Nutrients: Organic matter, fertilizer etc.

In my experience with soil-less mix; this water based component deteriorates with the passage of time and needs replacement yearly. I am surprised to know how these roses are still maintaining a good health in a small pot with soil-less mix , looks like these are at least 3 years old ?

Izhar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4115
Joined: April 11th, 2011, 9:38 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant plants, shade gardening, bulbous plants, annuals
Location: Karachi, Sindh

Re: Roses in soil-less medium

Post by Izhar » May 26th, 2016, 9:38 am

They are constantly fed with specific nutrients... big shrubs are pruned for roots and shoots both... the nutrients fed to them are A-grade chemicals from Merck etc... We are yet to learn these practices..

Izhar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4115
Joined: April 11th, 2011, 9:38 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant plants, shade gardening, bulbous plants, annuals
Location: Karachi, Sindh

Re: Roses in soil-less medium

Post by Izhar » August 10th, 2016, 4:10 pm

I started this experiment.. bought some Bone meal:

Image

Coco peat:

Image

Clay pots of 12 inch:

Image

Mixed composted manure and bone meal as per initial posted ratio:

Image
ImageImage

Some potted roses:

Image


Completely washed all the soil from roots:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

and potted them up and watered well:

Image

but only after 3 days the plants were in miserable condition, it was a heart wrenching sight and my first set-back in this experiment:

Image
Image
Image

One of my Indian friend, having experience in growing plants in coco peat told me no to worry... he told me to chop the plant to 4-5 inches and remove all leaves and flower buds... he also told me to give Vitamin B complex tablets dissolved in water to the plants.. within a week the plants started sprouting again, it was a happy sight:

Image
ImageImage

But the problems were not over yet...!!!

Izhar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4115
Joined: April 11th, 2011, 9:38 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant plants, shade gardening, bulbous plants, annuals
Location: Karachi, Sindh

Re: Roses in soil-less medium

Post by Izhar » August 10th, 2016, 4:30 pm

I started giving them Growmore 20:20:20, which is the best water soluble NPK in my experience along with MgSO4... but even after two months the plants were growing at snail's pace and the new growth was fragile and puny...

Again one of my Indian friend came to rescue, he hinted me to search and learn the hydroponics and growing plants in coco peat.. As I browsed websites and going into details, I was amazed by the science of pH, nutrient uptake, type of compounds & ions, Cation exchange capacity, TDS of irrigation water...

I concluded that I was doing it wrong by using pre-formulated NPK.... so I started searching for hydroponic nutrients... I asked many persons but no one was able to help out... so I decided to get the laboratory grade chemicals... this was expensive and was difficult too as Nitrates salts are not available... in the end I finally managed to get hold of the chemicals from shops which provide to school and college laboratories:

Image

Also bought pH meter:

Image

and an electronic weighing scale:

Image

Izhar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4115
Joined: April 11th, 2011, 9:38 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant plants, shade gardening, bulbous plants, annuals
Location: Karachi, Sindh

Re: Roses in soil-less medium

Post by Izhar » August 10th, 2016, 4:47 pm

Desired PPM for roses in coco peat is as follows:

N=170
P=45
K=285
Ca=120
Mg=40

To make this formula precise calculation was needed and the required water pH must be between 5.5-6.5... hard water having high TDS is not useful... I used AC condensate.. the TDS was 35 PPM while our tap water had 250 PPM.. the pH of my AC condensate was above 7 so I used battery acid to lower the pH, only 5 drops in 10 litre water brought down pH to 5.7...

In hydroponics we always make two nutrient solution i.e. Solution A and Solution B.. this is done to avoid precipitation of Calcium, Iron and Sulfate ions... due to peculiar nature of coco peat Ammonium nitrogen is not readily taken-up by roots so we have to keep Nitrate nitrogen in high proportion..

I searched and made some calculations to come-up with the following formula:

• SOLUTION A: (1 LITRE)
o Calcium Nitrate 10 gram
o Potassium Nitrate 6 gram

• SOLUTION B: (1 LITRE)
o Potassium Nitrate 6 gram
o Potassium sulfate 2 gram
o Mono Potassium Phosphate 1 gram
o Mono Ammonium Phosphate 0.8 gram
o Magnesium sulfate 5.6 gram

Izhar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4115
Joined: April 11th, 2011, 9:38 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant plants, shade gardening, bulbous plants, annuals
Location: Karachi, Sindh

Re: Roses in soil-less medium

Post by Izhar » August 10th, 2016, 4:58 pm

The formula in above post gave me following PPM, when 50 ml of this solution is mixed with irrigation water of 1 litre:

N=173
P=47
K=294
Ca=122
Mg=57

which is close to the desired PPM for roses in coco peat... I use a 10 litre bucket so 500 ml of Sol-A and 500 ml of Sol-B is poured... 1 gram Iron EDTA and 1 gram Chelated micronutrients must be dissolved in this 10 litre irrigation water of pH 5.5-6.5..... I used this solution and the results were absolutely amazing...!!

You must consider that I am doing this in hottest part of the year and in Karachi... which is not known for good roses..

After 10 days of watering:

Image
Image
Image
Image

Now, I was about encounter another problem......

Post Reply

Return to “Roses”