Best Rose for Your Garden??

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KBW
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Best Rose for Your Garden??

Post by KBW » September 18th, 2016, 7:33 pm

Hi all. Posting on this forum after quite a while.

This write was originally posted on my facebook page named "Fragrant Rose Lover" at https://www.facebook.com/groups/1412992132360557/. Izhar sb asked me to paste the write up on this forum as well. Basically, there are two different write ups, one named "The Best Rose for My Garden?" and the second write up named "Roses that Performed Well During Summers and Monsoon".

Reproducing the write ups for the information of the members....

THE BEST ROSE FOR MY GARDEN?
Which is the best rose for my garden? Or which roses are best for my garden? This is a question that most of us grapple with and find the answer to varying degree of accuracy and satisfaction, depending on the sources that we consult.

Internet has made many things easy. We can directly access the websites of breeders or the best selling nurseries in the world. Does it allow us to chose the best rose for our garden??? may be yes in certain cases and to the extent of acquiring some basic information about that rose. But in most cases, it lures us to buy a rose through stunning photographs and high claims and many of us fall for it. Later we are surprised that why the same rose that looked so stunning in photos is not performing in our gardens.
Second source is the forums / facebook pages etc. Better source than sellers website because you can get a few opinions / criticism too but again deceiving in many aspects. Members on the forums mostly tend to post the best looking photos of their roses which creates sort of "false" impression of a rose. Every second rose looks great to us so we want to add it to our garden and at the end, again get disappointed when it doesn't perform.

So, what is the right way? Would it not be appropriate first to define the "best rose" for our gardens? The correct answer to this question can't be ONE answer that holds good for everyone as it will be affected by many variables like climate, soil, knowledge of the grower etc as well as our personal likes / dislikes.

I will share my personal view on this which will be "my view" based on my personal research carried out in a certain climate (Islamabad, similar to zone 9b USA with the addition of monsoon).
In my view, THE BEST ROSE for my garden is the one that.............
- blooms most part of the year and retains good fragrance (best blooms and top fragrance during prime season but reasonably good blooms and reasonable fragrance during off season as well). Any rose that performs very well in prime season but DOESN'T PERFORM IN OFF SEASON goes low in priority.
- Is hardy and robust enough to survive with minimum of care IN OUR RESPECTIVE CLIMATES. Has the ability to resist against diseases and is not very sensitive to mineral / other deficiencies. Any rose that needs too much care and maintenance GOES OUT OF THE LIST for me, even if it produces stunning blooms during the prime season. There are so many options available nowadays that I don't have to stick with a problem rose even if it produces OUTSTANDING BLOOMS during spring / prime season.
- And preferably, the cultivar should have the ability to do well on own roots as own root roses are much longer lasting, hardy and robust as well as better performers from blooming point of view, when they are fully settled. But this is a preference and not a deciding factor.

If some of you agree with the above mentioned criteria, how to go about it? For me, following needs to be done.
- We should understand that performance of roses differs from cultivar to cultivar AND the same cultivar may ALL ROSES DO NOT PERFORM THE SAME. They perform differently in a different climate and in a different soil even in the same climate. For example a rose performing excellently for me in Islamabad may prove to be a failure in Merille A Ghazali's garden in Malaysia and even in Islamabad, a rose performing outstandingly in Tahir Khan's garden may be failure in my garden if the soil conditions are very different. It is therefore fundamental TO DISCUSS THE PERFORMANCE OF A ROSE WITH RESPECT TO THE CLIMATE AND SOIL IN WHICH IT IS BEING GROWN.
- We need to monitor the performance of a rose in all seasons and produce the evidence (photos) to support our observations. It is therefore important to discuss one rose cultivar in the same thread for a long time so that all can see the performance of that cultivar in different seasons / different regions and climates. THAT IS THE REASON I POST ALL MY PICS IN THE SAME THREAD AND DO NOT OPEN NEW THREADS EVERY TIME FOR THE SAME CULTIVAR. Recording of information is extremely important.
- What kind of evidence needs to be studied to get a correct answer to our questions? In my view, close up photos of blooms are very deceiving though they are a feast to the eyes. In addition to the closeup photos, we need to post photos OF FULL BUSH SHOTS IN DIFFERENT SEASONS. A bush shot tells a lot about a rose whereas a bloom close up could be very deceiving.
- It is the DIFFERENCE IN THE BUSH SHOT PHOTOS taken in PRIME SEASON, SECOND BEST SEASON and the OFF SEASON that sets the standards for me. If the difference is less (there will always be a difference) than that rose is a good performer and I would go for it. If the difference in the performance (shown through a bush shot) is too much I must reconsider my decision of buying that rose, even if there are few photos of stunning bloom close up. THIS CAN ONLY BE ESTABLISHED IF WE POST BUSH SHOTS OF THE SAME ROSE CULTIVAR IN DIFFERENT SEASONS IN THE SAME THREAD.

Based on above, I would request the members to post as many bush shots of their roses as possible, giving your observations on the performance and please do that in the same thread otherwise the information will get lost. Please do mention the weather (prime season and off season), soil (alkaline, acidic, clay, sandy loom etc) in your garden once you post this information. This will help us to get our answer to "THE BEST ROSE FOR MY GARDEN".
Thanks and best regards.


ROSES THAT PERFORMED WELL IN SUMMERS AND MONSOON
Most roses do well in spring and fall because the weather suits them. However, when the temp gets hot after mid May, many of our roses either stop blooming or produce small size ugly looking blooms with no or just a hint of fragrance. This is how most roses behave..... if treated normally.

Over the years I observed few roses that keep performing not as good as they do in springs but reasonably well in summers and monsoon too. At least they look presentable and not ugly like so many other roses do. This year, I made a deliberate effort to identify such roses that keep performing reasonably well even in extreme weather. For me, it was important because I couldn't see my roses "on holidays" for 5 months (May to Sep). During this process I did identify a few cultivars and I will share my experience. PLEASE NOTE that my observations are restricted only to the rose cultivars that I grow and I grow a little over 100 cultivars at the moment. There are around 30,000 known rose cultivars in the world nowadays and therefore, my observations shouldn't be taken as conclusive. However, it would give you some idea, at least names of few cultivars that performed reasonably well with me and many more which did not.

CATEGORY A - CULTIVARS THAT PERFORMED REASONABLY WELL IN HOT SUMMERS AND MONSOON
No rose cultivars performs as well in hot summers and monsoon as they do in spring or when it is cooler (20*C to 30*C is ideal). However, few roses kept blooming throughout, with small intervals, and had reasonably good bloom size, shade and fragrance. These include....
Crown Princess Margareta, William Morris, Glamis Castle, The McCartney Rose, Paul Neyron, Rose de Rescht, The Dark Lady, St. Swithun, Alan Titchmarsh, Graham Thomas, Burgundy Iceberg, Casino, Ebb Tide, St Ethelburga, Westerland, Iceberg, La France (please note that most of the roses are DA / OGRs)

CATEGORY B - CULTIVARS THAT PERFORMED BETWEEN REASONABLY WELL AND POOR
The Prince, Chartreuse de Parme, Jubilee Celebration, Pat Austin, Gruss an Teplitz, Lady Emma Hamilton,Tradescant, Princess Alexandra of Kent, Doris Tysterman, Winchester Cathedral, L.D.Braithwiate, Julia Child, Fragrant Cloud, Violette Parfumee, Bronze Star, Golden Celebration, Shocking Blue, Rhapsody in Blue, Gold Medal, Fredrick Mistral, Mirandy, The Alnwick Rose, Jude the Obscure, Just Joey, Tom Brown, Oklahoma, Black Prince, Scentimental, Belley Epoque, Augusta Luise, Hafiz Zaman, Parveen Shakir, Tipu Sultan, Secret, Liv Tyler, Crimson Glory, Papa Meilland, French Lace, Maurice Utrillo, Fourth of July, Blue for You, Evelyn May, Alexander, Gentle Hermione, Graaf Lennart, (a mix of DA, Hybrid Tea, Floribunda)

CATEGORY C - CULTIVAS THAT EITHER DID NOT BLOOM AFTER SPRING OR PERFORMED POORLY OR BOTH
Gertrude Jekyll, Benjamin Britten, Sharifa Asma, Teasing Georgia, Double Delight, Troika, The Painter, Sheila's Perfume, Mary Rose, Condisa de Sastago, Pink Perfume, Bajazzo, Signature, Maria Shriver, Chippendale, Rouge Royale, Papi Delbard, Alec's Red, Heritage, Charlotte, Spirit of Freedom, Jasmina, Abracadabra, Black Bacara, Fragrant Charm, Deep Secret, Michelangelo, Fragrant Plum, Nahema, Golden Showers,(mostly hybrid tea)

There are few more that I don't recall at the moment and then many of these roses I have two, three or more bushes. I have also not included one time bloomers in this list. If you study the lists given above following conclusions can be drawn (of course there are exceptions in each category)
1. Generally speaking, Old Garden Roses (Hybrid Perpetuals, Portland, China), David Austin and Shrub roses are much better than Hybrid Tea, Floribunda or Grandiflora roses. This category blooms better and gets much fewer diseases. Perhaps the reason is their closer lineage to specie / wild and OGRs.

2. Less a few exceptions mentioned in first block, many Hybrid Tea, Floribunda roses perform poorly when the weather get hot and humid. Generally speaking, Hybrid Tea roses are more prone to diseases as compared to OGRs, Shrubs and DA roses. It is perhaps due to extensive hybridization in Hybrid Tea and Floribunda categories that many of them are quite weak and need lot of care and perform well only when the conditions are good.

3. Providing a little shade to the roses in hot summers (2-4 hours morning sun) allows them to perform much better. The old saying that roses need at least 6 hours sun applies to cold climate and not to hot climate where there is plenty of sunshine and temps touch 46*C.



Enjoy reading. If there are any questions / queries, I will be glad to answer.
best regards

Izhar
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Re: Best Rose for Your Garden??

Post by Izhar » September 19th, 2016, 9:53 am

Excellent post with first hand native experience... thank you sir....

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Re: Best Rose for Your Garden??

Post by khabbab » September 19th, 2016, 6:59 pm

Perfect. Time to pick some roses from Category A then. Like Brig Arif, i only keep those roses which perform good without any spray or hassle. So far, only Sharifa Asma and Iceberg has kept their place. I will try some more from Category A this year.
Lahore gardening blog
http://www.lahoregardening.com

KBW
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Re: Best Rose for Your Garden??

Post by KBW » September 19th, 2016, 7:50 pm

Thanks Izahar and Khabab sb.

If you noticed, most of the roses that performed well are either OGRs or David Austin roses (which are closely related to OGRs). There are less number of OGRs in the Cat A list only because I don't have many OGRs. Unfortunately, not many OGRs are available in Pakistan and it seems one would have to get them from abroad. Our market is stuffed with hybrid tea and floribunda roses which in most cases are genetically weak disease prone roses though there are a few roses from these categories that are quite robust performers in our climate. Too much cross breeding has made hybrid tea and floribunda roses genetically weak.

Happy rose growing.

KBW
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Re: Best Rose for Your Garden??

Post by KBW » September 19th, 2016, 9:10 pm

A clarification.

Since these writeups are originally from my facebook page where every members knows what kind of rose growing I do, so the write ups do not mention anywhere that I am strictly an organic rose grower. I don't ever use any pesticides / fungicide on my roses and do not use any synthetic fertilizers also. I do use synthetic fertilizers at times in my compost to balance certain nutrients but rarely ever do direct application of these chemicals to my roses.

Please do keep this aspect in mind when you read the write ups that my point of view is deeply influenced by organic rose growing methods. I try to do the basics right and than, prefer those roses that are capable of performing well at their own with minimum care. Roses that need too much care to perform do not find a place in my garden.

best regards

Izhar
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Re: Best Rose for Your Garden??

Post by Izhar » September 20th, 2016, 9:22 am

Yes this is probably the best part, the inputs are organic and minimal... the roses which performed well must be noted down and recommended for rosarians of our region...

Having said that.. these roses have been observed in Islamabad which has unique weather of Himalayan footsteps...

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Re: Best Rose for Your Garden??

Post by Umair » September 24th, 2016, 1:28 am

AOA

Hats off to you KBW for this detailed knowledge. Its a great contribution and effort.
I have a few questions:
1. Does you Category A roses bloom round year for you.
2. If yes what is the variation rate in bloom size and count in summer, monsoon and winter.




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Muhammad Arif Khan
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Re: Best Rose for Your Garden??

Post by Muhammad Arif Khan » September 25th, 2016, 9:05 am

THANK YOU KBW. It has brightened my day, such are the contributions expected from the learned members.
I feel like re-introducing roses in my garden. Recommend me five roses (available at Pattoki) which will do well in pots.
Regards, Arif

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Re: Best Rose for Your Garden??

Post by sage » September 25th, 2016, 2:40 pm

Really excited!!! reading this post, am feeling i must try roses again...Thanks for sharing such valueable knowledge and your findings.
All i wonder is where to get these roses in Lahore, whenever i visited some nurseries usually nursery men are unaware of the names....plz do guide from where can i purchase these Category A roses?? We cant enjoy the best roses untill we dont have the real cultivater as you have suggested.


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sage
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Re: Best Rose for Your Garden??

Post by sage » September 25th, 2016, 2:40 pm

Really excited!!! reading this post, am feeling i must try roses again...Thanks for sharing such valueable knowledge and your findings.
All i wonder is where to get these roses in Lahore, whenever i visited some nurseries usually nursery men are unaware of the names....plz do guide from where can i purchase these Category A roses?? We cant enjoy the best roses untill we dont have the real cultivater as you have suggested.


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