Rose Database

[M Farooq]

116- Gruss an teplitzwhich literally means "Greetings or Salute from Teplitz" in German should indeed be the first rose...I'd would consider this entry critical as it clarified the misconception in my mind held for ~ 15 years that this rose is our very own rose i.e. of Pakistan.

Another rose which should be added is the "gulaabi" rose - which is usually not available in the nurseries but I have seen it being used for extracting "Rose-water" by distillation. Does anyone have a picture that rose from a local garden? It is also highly fragrant. Some people said that it was Rosa damascena but google images search shows so many variations in flower shape that it is easy get misled by mere internet searching.

And how does Rosa indica look like in Pakistan, which our high school biology texts often mention while introducing the concept of Latin nomenclature?

[Izhar]

I personally think that our common rose is "Slater's Crimson China" - experts please suggest

[UMARKHANMARDAN]

------------- Updated
http://www.gardeningpakistan.com/viewto ... 417#p15417

[KBW]

116- Gruss an teplitz should indeed be the first rose...I'd would consider this entry critical as it clarified the misconception in my mind held for ~ 15 years that this rose is our very own rose i.e. of Pakistan.

Farooq sb, British brought many plants to Subcontinent in late 19th and early 20th century. Some of these plants did extremely well in our climate and were so vastly cultivated over the years that after 100 years, we feel that they are native. Indeed, fathers of our grandfathers saw them growing locally, hence the misconception. And since as a culture we don't carry out our own research and always rely on somebody else's research (that too on a small part of it which concerns us), the misconceptions survive. On the other hand, there is a large number of native plants whom we consider foreign plants due to our poor knowledge about our own plants. British, Dutch, French took so many of these plants from Subcontinent, Central Asia, Iran, Afghanistan etc, hybridised them, improved their quality and now we buy those plants from the West, completely forgetting that their parents still grow in the areas of Pakistan, Northern India, Afghanistan, Central Asia etc. A large number of bulbs (including all types; true bulbs, corms, rhizomes, tubers etc), a good number of roses, ferns, rhododendrons, azaleas etc still have their parents or grand or grand grand parents living in our part of the world. Ignorance is not always a blessing.

Another rose which should be added is the "gulaabi" rose - which is usually not available in the nurseries but I have seen it being used for extracting "Rose-water" by distillation. Does anyone have a picture that rose from a local garden? It is also highly fragrant. Some people said that it was Rosa damascena but google images search shows so many variations in flower shape that it is easy get misled by mere internet searching.

It could be Rosa centifolia or Rosa damascena because both have naturalised in Pakistan since centuries. Rosa centifolia (which happens to be the root stock of most of our grafted roses that we buy from the nurseries), is much more common and is found everywhere. Its a beautiful rose and highly fragrant. The scent of centifolia and damascena are quite different.

And how does Rosa indica look like in Pakistan, which our high school biology texts often mention while introducing the concept of Latin nomenclature?

I haven't seen much of Rosa indica here. Well there are so many of them when I checked the data at HMF. Rosa indica Alba, Rosa indica borbonica, Rosa indica caryophyllea, Rosa indica var. vulgaris and so many others. Unlike common misconception that it's a specie rose coming from India, most of these are very old hybrids which was bred in Europe before 1850s. The study of specie roses is a very complex study and there are many differences of opinion that exist amongst the sceintists, with regard to their origin. The specie roses available to us like Rosa centifolia, Rosa damascena and Rosa chinesis are also actually hybrids which were hybridised by unknown breeder (or hybridisation may have taken place naturally) very long ago. Some of them were hybridised more than 2000 years ago. So we tend to include them amongst specie roses (because their immediate parents probably were wild specie roses) but many of these double specie roses are actually hybrids but very old ones. Some of these were actually discovered in the wild where hybridisation took place naturally long time back. It's a very very interesting study to thrash the origin of plants, specially roses.

I personally think that our common rose is "Slater's Crimson China" - experts please suggest

Izhar sb, I haven't seen Rosa chinensis semperflorens which is commonly called Slater's Crimson China (and has many other names) in Pakistan so do not have any personal knowledge / experience of this rose. But many of these roses, being very old, can be found in different areas of India and Pakistan. As per HMF, Garden Roses and Beyond and few other sources, Rosa chinensis semperflorens (Slater's Crimson China) has very light or at times no fragrance whereas Gruss an Teplitz has very strong fragrance. There looks like a difference in shade also. Rosa chinensis semperflorens seems to be more towards scarlet side in pics but Gruss an Teplitz is very dark pink. Have you seen Rosa chinensis semperflorens in Karachi or elsewhere in Pakistan? Please do share if you have more information on it along with its source.

By the way, our old nursery walas call Gruss an Teplitz as GROOSEN or GRUSSAN (I have tried to pronounce it) which looks like a deformed shape of Gruss an Teplitz.
Regards

[KBW]

117 - Secret


Picture contributed by UMARKHANMARDAN from his collection of roses in Mardan.



Common Name: Secret
Other Names: HILaroma
Type: Hybrid Tea
Bred by: Daniel Tracy (United States, 1992).
Description:
Yellow and pink. The blossoms are Naples Yellow and strongly edged with Venetian Pink on opening and turning to Neyron Rose when fully open.. Strong, spice, sweet fragrance. 30 to 35 petals. Average diameter 4.75". Full (26-40 petals), borne mostly solitary, cluster-flowered, in small clusters, cupped, high-centered bloom form. Prolific, blooms in flushes throughout the season. Leafy sepals buds.
Bushy, thornless (or almost). Medium, matte, dark green, dense, leathery foliage.
Height of 47" to 4¼' (120 to 130 cm). Width of 4' 7" (140 cm).
USDA zone 7b and warmer. Can be used for cut flower, garden or landscape. Very vigorous. heat tolerant. shade tolerant. Disease susceptibility: very disease resistant. Spring Pruning: Remove old canes and dead or diseased wood and cut back canes that cross. In warmer climates, cut back the remaining canes by about one-third. In colder areas, you'll probably find you'll have to prune a little more than that. Requires spring freeze protection (see glossary - Spring freeze protection)


Lineage:
Pristine ® (hybrid tea, Warriner 1978) × Friendship (hybrid tea, Lindquist, 1978)


Above Information source: HelpMeFind http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/plants.php

[Mustansir Billah]

I found a website of the rose behaviour. This might help.
http://rosomanes.blogspot.com/2011/09/m ... eport.html

[KBW]

118 - Sharifa Asma


Picture contributed by UMARKHANMARDAN from his collection of roses in Mardan. Taken in April 2012.


Common Name: Sharifa Asma
Other Names: AUSreef, Sharifa
Type: Shrub. English Rose Collection
Bred by: David Austin (United Kingdom, 1989).
Description:
Blush, cream edges, ages to white . Moderate, opinions vary fragrance. 90 petals. Average diameter 3.5". Medium to large, very full (41+ petals), borne mostly solitary, cluster-flowered, in small clusters, cupped, rosette bloom form. Blooms in flushes throughout the season. Rounded buds.
Medium, armed with thorns / prickles, bushy, upright. Medium, semi-glossy, dark green foliage.
Height of 3' to 5' (90 to 150 cm). Width of 30" to 4' (75 to 120 cm).
USDA zone 5b through 10b. Can be used for beds and borders, container rose, cut flower or garden. Rain tolerant. Requires spring freeze protection (see glossary - Spring freeze protection) . Can be grown in the ground or in a container (container requires winter protection).

Meg Peterson says this rose will do well in a partially shaded location.


Lineage:
Mary Rose ® × Admired Miranda ®


Above Information source: HelpMeFind http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/plants.php


Picture contributed by UMARKHANMARDAN from his collection of roses in Mardan. Taken in April 2012

KBW's Comments
The HMF data quoted above does not seem to reflect Sharifa Asma correctly. The colour, as can be seen in pics, is light pink. I have discussed Sharifa Asma with many of my Roserian friends in Pakistan, USA, UK and Canada. They all rate it to be a strongly fragrant rose but HMF describes it as moderate fragrance. Members opinion is solicited.

UMARKHANMARDAN's Comments
Sharifa Asma according to David Austin description.Sharifa Asma is light pink with strong fragrance on medium shrub.It was named after Omani princess Sharifa Asma.

Hammad Ahmed Kisan's Comments
aah sharifa asma my favourite rose.i have 3 plants and it is very hardy like ice berg....and fragrance is top quality i love this rose.

KBW's Comments
Correct, even as per the colour in Umar sahib's house, it is light pink. However, we have to keep in mind that colour, even pictures given on internet may not be a true guide for us as to how a rose will behanve in Pakistan. It may come out with a slightly and some times very different shade. And that is the reason for including only local pictures (or few pictures taken outside Pakistan for comparison purpose but taken by members of bushes that they know about) have been included in this database.

[KBW]

119 - Anvil Sparks


Picture contributed by UMARKHANMARDAN from his collection of roses in Mardan. Taken in April 2012.



Picture contributed by UMARKHANMARDAN from his collection of roses in Mardan. Taken in April 2012.


Common Name: Anvil Sparks
Other Names: Amboss Funken, Ambossfunken
Type: Hybrid Tea
Bred by: Discovered by Meyer (South Africa, 1961)
Description:
Coral-red, yellow stripes, stripes. Strong fragrance. Cupped bloom form. Blooms in flushes throughout the season.
Height of 39" (100 cm).
USDA zone 5b through 9b. Disease susceptibility: susceptible to disease, susceptible to blackspot . Spring Pruning: Remove old canes and dead or diseased wood and cut back canes that cross. In warmer climates, cut back the remaining canes by about one-third. In colder areas, you'll probably find you'll have to prune a little more than that. Requires good cultivation if it is to perform its best

Lineage:
sport of Signora Piero Puricelli


Above Information source: HelpMeFind http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/plants.php


Picture contributed by UMARKHANMARDAN from his collection of roses in Mardan. Taken in April 2012.

UMARKHANMARDAN's Comments
Anvil sparks is a great hybrid tea but its not fragrant rose.

KBW's Comments
Members to please note that Umar sahib has commented Anvil Sparks to be a non-fragrant rose (or may be very lightly fragrant) whereas HMF mentions it as a strongly fragrant rose. I will take the comments of Umar sahib as authentic because they are based on experience. There could be inaccuracies even in an authentic and very methodically compiled databases like HMF. And when it comes to normal comments by users whom we don't even know, there is no reliability of information. Secondly, the information in HMF might be correct and it is the difference in climate that makes Anvil Spark a non-fragrant rose in Pakistan.

This is the procedure that we are going to follow in this database. The practical experience of members will be considered more authentic as compared to other information acquired from elsewhere.

[KBW]

I found a website of the rose behaviour. This might help.
http://rosomanes.blogspot.com/2011/09/m ... eport.html

Went through the blog, thanks for quoting. It talks about 6-7 roses only which the guy had tried to grow. Not much of help I guess

[UMARKHANMARDAN]

Sharifa Asma according to David Austin description.Sharifa Asma is light pink with strong fragrance on medium shrub.It was named after Omani princess Sharifa Asma.