Champee specimen sought

New members introduce here. Tell us what you are growing, your interests and where you are growing.

Moderator: Izhar

taariqq
Posts: 5
Joined: June 29th, 2011, 12:25 pm
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi

Champee specimen sought

Post by taariqq »

Salaams everyone!

I am in Karachi. Gulshan-e-Iqbal to be precise, so away from the salty air of the Arabian Sea. Have always been interested in Botany and took interest in the subject during Intermediate and B.Sc. I have come back from United States a few years ago and am in the process of exploring what plants can be successfully grown here without too much of a hassle. Thank God we have a handful of nurseries where they are knowledgeable enough to discuss things.

I've got most of my plants growing in pots on the roof. Just wanted to make it green and scented so I embarked on this voyage, and have 700+ pots on the roof now :) It all started with a passion of growing Gul Mohr (Delonix regia) for some shade. While that has been moved to the ground, I have moved on with almost anything I can buy. Have also successfully killed some Holland imported specimens. Currently I am trying to see if I can acquire some of the scented trees (and plant them in the ground once they reach a relatively non-stealable size/state).

A little while ago, while visiting the Gulshan branch of Shalimar nurseries, I was introduced to Artabotrys hexapetalus (or siamensis to be precise). What scent! Local nurseries refer to it as Nag Champa when in fact it is know as Hari Champa in Hindi. In my quest to acquire a relatively inexpensive specimen I have discovered that there are different varieties and the local thorned variety has flowers that are not as intensely fragrant as the thornless Thai variety (perhaps A. siamensis and not hexapetalus) which becomes fragrant towards late afternoon and into the evening. I have both varieties growing successfully with the Thai variety in the ground and anxiously awaiting first flowering, hopefully by the end of the year.

On one side of my house (corner plot) there are no electric wires above the ground and the whole kiyari is barren; facing west north-west. I have planted the D. regia near the gate. In the rest of the area I plan on putting in three Date Palms that I grew from seed this year ('ajwa!). In the rest of the space between dates I intend on putting some scented trees. Trees especially (and only) because there is a school across the street and the street is kind of main gali ... so noise and dust pollution (perfect Karachi scenario, ain't it? lol). One of the trees is going to be Michelia/Magnolia champaca (the real Nag Champa), another a Cananga odorata, a Michelia alba (Champee in Thai), a Stemmadenia litoralis (Pud Hathaya in Thai), and perhaps a Michelia rajaniana (Champee Ratchanee). I also have a big plumeria growing and I might use its shade to plant the Michelia(s) underneath, so they have partial shade and protection from afternoon sun. Any suggestions on this plan would be appreciated :).

I am looking for a source to buy Michelia champa, Cananga odorata, Michelia alba, Stemmadenia and Michelia rajaniana. Does anyone know of a good source, a nursery or otherwise, that would have these beauties? I have picked up a sample of some variant of Michelia alba (awaiting flowering) from Makkah nursery. Farhan from Diamond nursery will be at the Jatujak market from 24th to 27th of July and I have asked him to bring me these if he can find them (which he should). But I am looking to see if someone currently has them here right now. I called a couple of places in Pattoki (of which I had heard a lot) including Changa farms who supposedly have big glass temperature-controlled greenhouses, but they do not grow these. The answer was 'yeh to Karachi ka poda hay'.

I hope some of the people here would have had some experience with these plants and would be able to tell me if these plants can be grown here, and more importantly someone would be able to guide me to a good source for these plants. I am also looking for sub-tropical Magnolias as well, besides grandiflora. You can check out my flickr pictures as well, which is not much, but I find flickr to be a good source of information as well, even for discussion.

Also, if someone could shed some light as to how many climatic regions there are in Karachi, it would be very helpful.

Hope to talk to you. WasSalaam.
Tariq
M Farooq
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1756
Joined: July 3rd, 2011, 4:31 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant Tropical Plants Ornamental Trees Vines

Re: Champee specimen sought

Post by M Farooq »

Nice to see someone who has same interests as mine in growing a perfume garden! I had also visited to Shalimar but they all Artabotrys (the fragrant ones) have been sold out and they will making more plants of this species. The Tahi variety as I said in an earlier post is essentially useless with no fragrance.

If you are fond of growing fragrant plants then:

Nycanthes arbortristitis (Haar singhaar) is available in Shalimar and nurseries close by. Its fragrance is very good as well.

Secondly, look for Mimusops elengi. It is known as Molsari in Urdu and it is relatively rare in Karachi. I have two trees and the fragrance is the sweetest of all. Although flowers are unnoticeable and small.

Shalimar also has Canaga odorata var. fruticosa (I guess) and I am "not" impressed by the fragrance. It was costly but I have been reading lately that the plant has to be mature to make your garden fragrant.

I also had had Michelia alba but, to be honest, its fragrance is highly exaggerated. You really have to stick you nose to smell them and they smell good on a hot humid day. Either your tree has to be flowering in hundreds or otherwise you have be very close. Unfortunately, it died due to lack of care.

Also look for Kaam-ee-nee (Murraya paniculata) its flowers are very fragrant. It is very common as well.

Gardenias do well in Karachi as well. If you are fan of growing even rarer plants then Kewdra or Pandanus odoratismuss is on the top of my list. One single flower changes the odor of the lawn. We had this and it used to bloom once or twice in a year. We used to gift this flower to people. I cannot find this tree anywhere. Not even online vendors...they are out of it,

I have ordered seeds of champaca from Banana Tree Inc. (hoping to receive them, earlier didn't receive them...so a second and last try).

I am also looking for real Canaga, Michelia champaca and Kewdra. If you happen to find them let me know as well.
taariqq
Posts: 5
Joined: June 29th, 2011, 12:25 pm
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi

Re: Champee specimen sought

Post by taariqq »

And I just finished posting a reply to one of your other threads!
Yes, Shalimar should be propagating by the end of this month and Hussain should have the plants available by mid-September. Can't believe even people in Australia are having difficulty finding the Thai variety. And yes, it is the Thai variety that is unforgettably fragrant. The nursery at Kashmir Rd also has a few plants for sale at 6k, but I am not sure if it is the Thai variety or not.
This forum has good input on Artabotrys.

I have Kamini, both the local variety and the Indian variety that has broader leaves and bigger flowers, bought at Diamond. I will look into your advice for other plants, especially kewra. Is that the same thing whose extract we use in cooking? The leaves look it.

Have you tried mushk-e-'amber? Fragrance all the time!! It is a small shrubby thing, silvery compound velvety leaves and the leaves are fragrant! Group a bunch of these plants together and enjoy the sweet and decent scent all the time, all seasons! Pinch the leaves slightly and smell your fingers and they smell like you put 'itr on them! Of course you must know about it ... available for Rs. 10 even.

Speaking of incredible scents, have you tried Ixora odorata? This is the only 'truly' scented Ixora, besides slight scent in the white variety. It is available for as low as 600 at Lalazar or the standard price of 1500 from Diamond. This is one incredible shrub. You will be taking your pot with you wherever you sit! Supposed to flower most of the year and supposedly flowers in shaded areas as well!

BTW, Makkah nursery has a big Michelia for sale (like 6 ft). They say it is creamy flower, so perhaps M. sinuan or M. rajaniana or ... not sure. Sad to hear your M. alba died. I would love to see a specimen. I bought one at Makkah, but not sure if it is alba or what. They said either white or cream flower. Plant is not doing very well. Leaves were very pale before I lost most of them. I read that they need acidic soil ... will be adding vinegar with the next watering :)

Farooq, very happy someone has similar things in mind as me. I will make a list of fragrant plants I have. I think I have 27+ in all, but lots of plumeria in there too. But still.

Just the other day I picked up a scented Hostas from Ehsan bhai's home (Tajdar nursery), right after they moved back from Karsaz. What a sad ending that was. Now people like myself in Gulshan will have to drive all the way to Korangi Rd. to visit them!

By the way, you know of any nurseries that have Michelias for sale? Where did you get your alba, if you don't mind me asking.

Later
taariqq
Posts: 5
Joined: June 29th, 2011, 12:25 pm
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi

Re: Champee specimen sought

Post by taariqq »

According to Top Tropicals the evening scented one is Artabotrys siamensis. The Australian expert says it is still A. hexapetalus but Thai variety ... Whatever, I just can't get the scent out of my head ... kind of like vanilla and juicy fruit gum mixed ... very earthly scent, as people describe it. Is ke khusboo raat ki rani ke tarhah chubhtee nahin.
M Farooq
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1756
Joined: July 3rd, 2011, 4:31 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant Tropical Plants Ornamental Trees Vines

Re: Champee specimen sought

Post by M Farooq »

taariqq wrote:According to Top Tropicals the evening scented one is Artabotrys siamensis. The Australian expert says it is still A. hexapetalus but Thai variety ... Whatever, I just can't get the scent out of my head ... kind of like vanilla and juicy fruit gum mixed ... very earthly scent, as people describe it. Is ke khusboo raat ki rani ke tarhah chubhtee nahin.
I don't what are you referring to as the Thai variety of Artabortys. I think we two do agree the specimen Shalimar has is the best! He could not purchase earlier because of $$$ and later when I wanted to buy it this year..they are not selling. I had plucked one flower and the smell was really fruity and chewing gum type. Nice, but it only smells in the evening.

Shalimar also sold Desmos chinenis...very similar to Cananga flowers but...it too died. Its flowers had a rosy smell. Shalimar does not have it anymore.

BTW, have you ever seen a woodrose? It is a beautiful vine. The "flowers" (actually seeds), are really likes flowers made of wood. They stay forever one plucked.
M Farooq
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1756
Joined: July 3rd, 2011, 4:31 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant Tropical Plants Ornamental Trees Vines

Re: Champee specimen sought

Post by M Farooq »

[quote="taariqq"]And I just finished posting a reply to one of your other threads!
Yes, Shalimar should be propagating by the end of this month and Hussain should have the plants available by mid-September.

The plants are quite expensive! He was selling one plant for Rs. 3000, 3-4 years ago.


I have Kamini, both the local variety and the Indian variety that has broader leaves and bigger flowers, bought at Diamond. I will look into your advice for other plants, especially kewra. Is that the same thing whose extract we use in cooking? The leaves look it.

Yes, kewda was our favourite. This kewda in cooking is synthetic. It is very very rare, not because it does not grow, because not many people are familiar with it. I have been looking for kewda for 8 years without success. Our older house had tons of this plant but when we left the other perons got it removed probably considering it as a wild growing plant.


Have you tried mushk-e-'amber? Fragrance all the time!! It is a small shrubby thing, silvery compound velvety leaves and the leaves are fragrant! Group a bunch of these plants together and enjoy the sweet and decent scent all the time, all seasons! Pinch the leaves slightly and smell your fingers and they smell like you put 'itr on them! Of course you must know about it ... available for Rs. 10 even.


I had it but did not survive. Yes, the leaves are aromatic.

Speaking of incredible scents, have you tried Ixora odorata? This is the only 'truly' scented Ixora, besides slight scent in the white variety. It is available for as low as 600 at Lalazar or the standard price of 1500 from Diamond. This is one incredible shrub. You will be taking your pot with you wherever you sit! Supposed to flower most of the year and supposedly flowers in shaded areas as well!

Ixoras are pretty difficult. The yellowing of leaves hurts!

BTW, Makkah nursery has a big Michelia for sale (like 6 ft). They say it is creamy flower, so perhaps M. sinuan or M. rajaniana or ... not sure. Sad to hear your M. alba died. I would love to see a specimen.

BTW, don't have high hopes with Michelia alba. It is fragrance is NOT at all close to Chanel No.5 of any other perfume. I have a picture if you wish to see. Mine was healthy and flourishing but since I left, nobody cared and it died.

Farooq, very happy someone has similar things in mind as me. I will make a list of fragrant plants I have. I think I have 27+ in all, but lots of plumeria in there too. But still.Just the other day I picked up a scented Hostas from Ehsan bhai's home (Tajdar nursery), right after they moved back from Karsaz. What a sad ending that was. Now people like myself in Gulshan will have to drive all the way to Korangi Rd. to visit them!By the way, you know of any nurseries that have Michelias for sale? Where did you get your alba, if you don't mind me asking.

Of course, Shalimar. Karachi University (inside Karachi University) used to be good and _extremely_ cheap. Nothing exceeded 100 rupees. But this many many years ago. It from there where I learnt about Molsari. It is a handsome tree.

Try Haar singhaar and Molsari. Another vine to try is Antigonon. It is very beautiful.
Izhar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4340
Joined: April 11th, 2011, 9:38 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant plants, shade gardening, bulbous plants, annuals
Location: Karachi, Sindh

Re: Champee specimen sought

Post by Izhar »

Welcome to the forum Taariqq. The discussion between you and Farooq is very informative for us amateurs, thanks both of you .. I am in Gulzar-e-Hijri and also very fond of the scented plants, have you tried the Datura "Evening fragrance" it has very large white blooms and lovely intoxicating fragrance in night.. I am also growing Vigna caracalla (snail vine) which is known for its fragrance...
Izhar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4340
Joined: April 11th, 2011, 9:38 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant plants, shade gardening, bulbous plants, annuals
Location: Karachi, Sindh

Re: Champee specimen sought

Post by Izhar »

Taariqq, from pictures at flicker I came to know about your Fish keeping hobby, actually I am also an amateur fish keeper for last 15 years and currently I am working on a project of Pondarium... I do positively hope that I can get expert advice from you regarding the technicalities involved....
taariqq
Posts: 5
Joined: June 29th, 2011, 12:25 pm
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi

Re: Champee specimen sought

Post by taariqq »

Salaams Izhar bhai,

Well, when it comes to gardening, you are definitely a mile ahead of me. Ever since I started searching for information on plants I had come across your very helpful posts on GardenWed and other websites. I was actually going to pm you but thought it would be rude w/o introduction. I will contribute further after Jum'ah, got to run now. Mali needing some attention :)
M Farooq
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1756
Joined: July 3rd, 2011, 4:31 am
Country: Pakistan
City: Karachi
Gardening Interests: Fragrant Tropical Plants Ornamental Trees Vines

Re: Champee specimen sought

Post by M Farooq »

Izhar wrote:Welcome to the forum Taariqq. The discussion between you and Farooq is very informative for us amateurs, thanks both of you .. I am in Gulzar-e-Hijri and also very fond of the scented plants, have you tried the Datura "Evening fragrance" it has very large white blooms and lovely intoxicating fragrance in night.. I am also growing Vigna caracalla (snail vine) which is known for its fragrance...
I am a "nobody" in gardening. It just happened that I knew about those fragrant plants which Mr. Tariq was looking for. I think all Daturas are quite toxic so never liked them. I haven't seen snail vine before but it looks pretty according to google images. Is it indigenous or you imported it?
Post Reply

Return to “Introduction”