KAM's garden.

[KAMasud]

Dehkho sunno, macro climate and out climate. Our climate is harsh agreed but it can be improved. Their are places in our country that can be used for plant research. One of the best places is under Pakistan Agricultural Research Council or what ever the new name is. Then we have our Barani Research institute in lovely spot. Barani Research institute Chakwal is the only one doing any thing and that to on fruit trees. This is the only one doing any thing useful. The rest, i suppose the staff shows up once a month to collect their wages then back to the national past time.
Now if a private person wants to do some thing he can contact me and i can show him ideal spots. Zone 8 type here in the Murree hills. Come do some thing useful and i will also help. There are some good places for plant research.

Sir jee you are most welcome, plz forgo my propensity of stepping on some very calloused toes. The cement should be plants and nothing else. Its just that a slip and i go for it. Quite fun, you should try it some times man. Stand easy and hang loose.

Khubbarb waiting for your answer to my Dmail.
Regards.

[Farhan Ahmed]

Experimentation can be done at some places as you mentioned......hill stations etc......but still in the end they will have to be cultivated in plains(hot arid places)........where bulk/almost all population lives........where they are bound to fail....You can't grow what PC Bhurdan guys are growing and how they are growing it.........

[KAMasud]

You know, if you have the will, then you can always find a way. What is the difference between Bhurban and lets say Lahore? Temperature and humidity?
To understand how, you have got to learn about canopies, type, density, elevation, etc.

Upper canopy. Depending upon type of trees you can range from patchy shade to deep shade. Grow palms and you will get patchy or lets say 30% about light will be cut out and a temperature drop of up to 5c can be expected. Grow Jambolinum Syzegium (Jamman) and you can expect only 15 to 20% light to get through and a temperature drop of 10c+ can be expected.
Roof or on top of canopy garden, that changes the picture a bit more. Epi's and Orchids etc.

Middle canopy. This is a mid height canopy and depending upon what you want to do and how much light and temp you want to drop.

Lower canopy. As the name says it reaches a height of at most ten feet the trees. This canopy also changes the environment.

Bushes, Then you have bushes.

Ground cover. As the name is self explanatory i wont go into the details.
____________________________________

If you go to Bhurban, you will see a modification of environment due to vegetation but if you go to Dewal or Bagh or even Chitral in mid summer, there is no difference between those places and Hangu in summer. Why? destruction of nature. If you are in Karachi go pay a visit to the jungles of Khannot, Dadu. See the environment inside the jungle and out side. You are all city folks so i wont advise you to visit the Katcha area of Indus.
Do a study on the canopies and their effect, then we can hold a educated argument, warna i am just talking to a vacuum. No pun intended because some on this forum and admin do not seem to have a grasp of english and its nuances. . So for peace sake i would suggest to them also to please take some advanced english lessons and please grow up, become mature and leave this bigoted narrow minded approach to life if you want to be a part of international forums. If you want to be be a mummy pappa forum (Ostrich, Mullah) up to you but please stop spamming my email account. As to these retired ranks and yes sir no sir types, keep it in your family and help. As far as i am concerned up to Zia's time on retirement a person according to tradition becomes a Mister and no more a so and so(retired). In Zia's time these retired officers wanted psychological protection and made him change the tradition.
Regards.

[Izhar]

No pun intended because some on this forum and admin do not seem to have a grasp of english and its nuances. . So for peace sake i would suggest to them also to please take some advanced english lessons and please grow up, become mature and leave this bigoted narrow minded approach to life if you want to be a part of international forums. If you want to be be a mummy pappa forum (Ostrich, Mullah) up to you but please stop spamming my email account. As to these retired ranks and yes sir no sir types, keep it in your family and help. As far as i am concerned up to Zia's time on retirement a person according to tradition becomes a Mister and no more a so and so(retired). In Zia's time these retired officers wanted psychological protection and made him change the tradition.
Regards.

Kindly keep your conversation strictly limited to gardening only... we urge all of the members to do so.. we are not ready for "off-topic" discussions right now...

[Muhammad Arif Khan]

KAM speaks my mind. We have built cages around us and blocked our mind , he is right how is it that Agri University Florida has developed Peaches, Apples and Plums which will fruit in hot areas requiring little chill time and what have our experts getting fat pays done, the least they could have done was to borrow from them. Many international sources are open to them but blocked to us.
All KAM is saying is that there are many a ways to skin a cat.
Creating a micro environment and timing cultivation are some of the measures.
There are three types of PLANT LOVERS.
PAY THE EXPERTS and let them do it (they usually take the prizes).
DO IT YOUR SELF the members of this forum anxious to learn.
SPECTATERS the flower buyers.

Indoctrination is very much part of these discussions and not off topic.

[Izhar]

Sir, these comments of Mr. KAMasud can irk heated debate, which will give a bad impression to other members who are here just for gardening..

[aykhan]

I agree with Izhar. Comments need to be restricted to gardening and comments on anothers "English" is totally uncalled for; quite unacceptable. I see extremely ill formed senstences in KAMs mails and struggle to understand where he's coming from, maybe it is the navy's English uncommon to laymen . Also no disrespect should be shown to people who might have less knowledge in certain areas of gardening. If KAM feels some reading needs to be done then he should help instead of complain and attempt to post relevant stuff. This is how one becomes productive and he'll notice everyone on the forum thanking him! Otherwise it just irks of pride which should not be tolerated on freindly forums like these and is not helpful either, which I think is the reason to have this forum in the first place. I would request admin to edit KAMs message and delete my post after they have read it. I mean no disrespect but since KAM is on a pious corrective mission I think it appropriate to reiterate what I think also.

[khabbab]

Following points are important in this discussion:
1- There are some posts which we deleted altogether and nobody knows about these posts because they were very rude. May be one admin can be wrong, may be 2 can be wrong but not all admins can be wrong. Other members do not know of these posts. if they read it, they will advise for strict action. A man is known by the choice of words he makes and not by his knowledge.

2- We love to have knowledgeable members but not at the cost of bad-tameezi. The admins take time from their office time and other daily activities to edit the posts and it is simply not possible to read and edit posts as lengthy as thousands of words. It is responsibility of poster to avoid using harsh language and attacking others and if any complaint then simply PM the admins. Which international forum allows open bashing on admins? They kick out in an hour. Here a user keeps assaulting the forum management for weeks and we are allowing just for gardening and knowledge sake. Perhaps it is our softness which is being taken advantage of.

Forum is nothing without members, it is you members who make this forum a growing community and more importantly a good community. As much as love to have more members join and actively participate,it is always a difficult decision to see someone go.

[UMARKHANMARDAN]

KAM this is not an English class ok.

[mirafzalkhan]

Because all members are not aware what is happening and what happened. It is appropriate to present all facts in front of all members to portray a clear picture of the issue.

On July 29th 2012, 11:25am a post was made by KAMasud in response of a senior & respected member’s post in which he endorsed KAMasud point of view but the KAMasud reply was not appropriate in my opinion so I edited the following part of his post

You know some thing, I think I answered this post. Cant have become so senile. Izhar stop it or are the post on a time lag?
PS. Sorry sir jee I have not given you an answer but I am quite sure I answered and it looks ridiculous when that varnished post pops up and things go out of context. Hilarious for some but not for me.

I know Doc. Amir (aykhan) already read the reply before my editing because his reply was there when I was editing the Post.

On July 31, 2012 2:58am another post from KAMasud appeared on forum which caught the attention of Khabbab & after editing the post he also sent a PM to KAMasud

“Now tell where is my missing post in which I was talking about Gandhi colour As we as a nation in a back side that we cant even stand the name of Gandhi on our Forums?? Even though it’s a name of a variety of plant or is it a forum owned and operated by nursery wallas, usually they try to hide the tricks of their trade and this is one trick of their trade? This is absolutely stupid and thick headed”

Khabbab reply

I just edited your post in which you criticized the forum admins being stupid, thick headed and may be nursery walas and blah blah. It is a pity that a bunch of DIY gardeners are trying to accumulate the gardeners of Pakistan on one platform with no reward and in return we have to bear open comments as yours. If your post disappeared, there is standard procedure that you should email to admin@gardeningpakistan.com with your complaint; this is what we are here for, to resolve your issues. Gandhi word is not banned and nobody deleted your post due to just Gandhi. All the forum admins are nokri walas (mostly) and manage the forum while being in their office whatever their job is; it takes hell lot of effort to manage the forum with personal interest. I would appreciate if you keep this in mind and if you have any complaint, feel free to drop an email on address mentioned above. But if you post harsh comments openly, not only it will drop our morale but it will also portray a negative impression for first comers, I am sure you are rational enough to understand all this.
Btw these are all 3 posts I could find having the word Gandhi.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1064&p=8831&hilit=gandhi#p8831
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1064&p=8834&hilit=gandhi#p8834
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1064&p=8867&hilit=gandhi#p8867

In reply KAMasud wrote:

Not harsh comment ok. Some body had asked for my address and i had written that a true Isloo/Pindi walla should be able to make out from pic. Where is the harsh comment? The it appeared after two days with Izhar"s green gremlin. Go check. Second mail was about Bougainvillea, find it and repost it to me and under line the harsh comment.

In this reply on 31st July, KAMasud showed he did not do anything wrong and he want a proof that what was wrong. When Khabbab sent him the screen shoot of his reply he realized that we have proof. After 3 days he again starts the chat but this time not on the forum. He sent a D Mail on Dave’s Garden to Khabbab

He wrote:
“khabbab i did not do any thing, my language is abrupt i agree. I did not know the forum rules and some one asked me for my address and i wrote it out. It vanished and nobody explained why. I wrote another one saying a true aIsloo/Pindite can recognise no need for address, that also vanished. Then the joke about the PM's started but still nobody explained until the third day. Then a few more posts vanished. Bhai when the come back, cant you understand things go out of context. Khair goalli marro Fri, August 3, 2012 04:52 PM”

Now check his claims, first was about Gandhi. Khabbab already mentioned that the post are not vanished & still on forum links are provided in Khabbab’s reply and second claim is about a post in which he wrote “a true aIsloo/Pindite can recognise no need for address” is still on forum, check the following link.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1064&start=10#p8484

Now suddenly he realizes that Khabbab is spamming his yahoo account and he sent another D Mail to Khabbab on 14th August to his Dave’s Garden account.

“Why are you spamming my Yahoo account? If you are not mature enough to handle me then its not my problem. Is that clear or do i have to spell it out in baby language?”

What do you think Is this a response from educated & well-mannered person or this is the way?

This is the only question which needs to be answered from fellow members after considering the above facts. Please be gentle while making any comments, this is my humble request to all fellow Gardeners.