Page 2 of 4

Re: KOI fish in my Patio

Posted: October 11th, 2013, 10:45 am
by Arbab
Thanks a lot for such a useful reply, I will prepare this treat for my fish, by the way which multivitamin tablets do u use? I have heard that koi tends to eat their own eggs n fry, is it true ? if yes then one have to take out the eggs before they eat them n secondly I was reading an article which suggested to abstain from feeding koi in winter season bcoz in winter their process of metabolism halts and thus they cant digest food. The article also suggested to feed them wheat germ based food in winters and that too once or twice a week.

Re: KOI fish in my Patio

Posted: October 11th, 2013, 10:54 am
by Arbab
One more question plss.... by Beef-heart u mean heart of beef producing animals?? I fear fish will not eat the food after adding garlic to it.

Re: KOI fish in my Patio

Posted: October 11th, 2013, 6:30 pm
by newton
In cold water I recommend that you:

1. Reduce feeding drastically in water under 70 but above 64 Fahrenheit. Feed sparingly once per day or every other day. Watch for elevations in Ammonia because of bio filtration bacteria going dormant.

2. Feed Cheerios/bread/chappati/potato/yam soaked in proper orange juice once, every other day in water under 64 but above 53 DF.

3. Stop feeding when water temps are consistently under 55 - 53 DF (11 degrees Celsius) Fish are cold blooded like snakes/lizards etc and their bodies slow down into hibernation, they don't need food as they are living off their fat reserves.

4. Resume feeding Carbs diet as at 2 in the Spring when water temps are consistently at or above 55 - 53 DF

5. Resume nomal feeding patterns when the temperature rises above 70 DF

Once winter sets in with consistently cold temperatures do not be tempted to feed your koi even during odd days when your pond water temperature rises. they will find sufficient sustenance from natural algae that is highly nutritious and easily digestable.

The above rule, however, applies only to those of us who live in a climate with cold winters. Those living in climates like Pakistan where the water hovers around the 50-55 degree mark have a challenge. As stated, the fish's immune systems are not working up to par at lower temperatures, however, many "bad" bacteria are still active at these temperatures and can create problems in the weakened fish. Also remember most of the ammonia produced by the fish comes from their breathing and the good bacteria to remove this will also stop working in cold temperatures In these cases, check your water quality, do water changes and a small quantity of medicated food fed once or twice a week can help the fish withstand the bacterial attack.

The real dangers are not only the cold water periods for long times, even more dangerous is when a very sunny winter day is followed by a freezing cold winter night and this produces significant temperature swings that the Koi find it very difficult to adjust to. It should be pointed out here that a one-degree up or down change to a human being is four times greater to a Koi. Feeding them at this difficult time is guaranteed to cause problems, hence the benefits of thermostatically controlled heating which removes these acute temperature swings. To overcome the temperature fluctuations small systems can benefit with a number of 300-watt aquarium heaters placed into the filter system. that way the fish you have invested in will have a better chance of surviving the winter and your hobby interest will grow along with your fish.

Observe your fish closely during spring warm up, as this is when they are most susceptible to bacterial and parasitic invaders. Do NOT overfeed, and be sure to scoop out any uneaten food so it doesn't foul the water. It is best to err on the side of under-feeding and allow your fish to eat the easily digested algae that is often prolific at this time of year. Unfortunately so many Koi are dead within 12 months, most of them having a slow and painful death during the spring warm-up after a difficult winter.

The inclusion of garlic at a rate of 3% in food has been proved to increase the overall digestibility of protein, carbohydrates, and fat, as well as to lower the total bacteria count within the intestine, muscles, and water column.Yes. Most fish won't eat pure garlic, but they enjoy garlic mixed into their food. In fact, garlic is a taste attractant for many fish (they're attracted to its smell and flavor), and it is added to some commercial fish foods for this purpose. Fresh garlic also seems to help fish rid themselves of internal parasites. As the Chinese proverb goes, "Garlic is as good as ten mothers."

Ideally for breeding purposes you would use a separate shallow tank, place two 3 year old males and a larger female into it with spawning media (curtain rags or nylon bristle brushes are good) therein, once the fish have spawned/fertilised then they are removed and optimum conditions/aeratiosn are fine tuned for the fry hatching/development


Re: KOI fish in my Patio

Posted: October 11th, 2013, 10:26 pm
by Arbab
Very useful post. Thanks a lot. Wt abt beef heart?

Re: KOI fish in my Patio

Posted: October 13th, 2013, 8:09 pm
by newton
The diversity of fish is immense and their specialisations are no less complicated and for the majority of species dwelling in the hobby, for Koi the general diet in the wild is mostly filled with a large proportion of detritus, plant material and a considerable percentage of insects & their larvae, aquatic invertebrates, fruits, even fungi!, Opportunism is vital for their survival, by contrast rift valley cichlids are exclusively vegetarian or Discus which are predominantly carnivorous (I have kept both in the past and currently have Discus).

If you compare fish in the wild environment with their progressive progeny of F1, F2, F3 etc populations of tank bred Koi (fish which have been raised for endless generations in vastly contrasting environments and with a different food source e.g. Beef Heart), it is evident that making adaptations to the naturally available diet of fish can have beneficial effects. For fish which are mainly or exclusively vegetarian like rift valley cichlids. They are adapted to consume algae so it is true that their intestines cant cope with the protein from meat.

Regarding the specific use of the cardiac tissue, it is known that bovine (domestic cow, ox, buffalo etc) cardiac muscle contains the highest percentage of mitochondria and so the highest percentage of ATP (Adenosine Tri Phosphate) as well as the lower saturated fat content in comparison to other animals cardiac muscle (e.g. Pork heart). ATP is the main fuel used to synthesize energy (see Krebs cycle). To accompany that fact, Beef heart is richest in Co Enzyme Q10 which also boosts energy levels, is vital for the immune system and is an antioxidant. This easily translates to the fact that simply, beef heart is the highest energy food source – a good place to start considering it also contains all essential amino acids! the next best alternative would be goats heart.

One thing which is fundamentally important to discuss and which is constantly overlooked is the formula and composition of the beef heart product itself. Feeding beef heart alone will not be adequate to supplement the complete dietary requirement of hobby fish. But feeding the right formula which includes beef heart will be exactly what they need on a regular basis, particularly when they are growing.

Try it they will like it

Re: KOI fish in my Patio

Posted: October 14th, 2013, 12:24 pm
by Izhar
I am a fish lover too and have been keeping and breeding fishes since childhood... excellent information shared by Mr. Ifzal

Just to add my 2 cents: try giving them steamed lossan (alfalfa) leaves, it has proven to be excellent source of nutrients for omnivorous and herbivorous animals.. CAUTION: as it is nutrient rich, it quickly rots so better to give small quantities regularly..

Re: KOI fish in my Patio

Posted: October 14th, 2013, 1:19 pm
by Muhammad Arif Khan
As a child I used to visit Patolian Walli Musjad whenever we visited my grandfather in Lohari Mandi Lahore and spent hours watching gold fish in its pond.
I have an aquarium which is getting bigger and bigger as the fish are growing bigger and bigger.
Three years ago I made a pond at my Thokar garden, with a fountain for beauty and aeration of water and released some silver carps as a preliminary experiment before putting Koi in it.
The experiment FAILED. The water became murky and dirty so I started partial replacement but over a couple of years the pond became so dirty that it was decided to take out the fish in tubs and clean the pond.
To my bad luck I left the job to someone, who told me on third day that all fish have died. On inquiry I found that the motor of the pump for filling the pond got burnt and by the time it got repaired it was too late.
My dream of having the fountain pond with Koi in crystal clear water crashed.
I would like to try again if someone can tell me how to keep the water and the pond clean.

Re: KOI fish in my Patio

Posted: October 14th, 2013, 1:54 pm
by Muhammad Arif Khan
My pond


Re: KOI fish in my Patio

Posted: October 14th, 2013, 2:18 pm
by Izhar
Filtration is the key... for new ponds the fish should be added after a month or so while the filters in continuous working... or the water is continuously replaced i.e. to use the pond water for gardening and topping-up with fresh water...

Re: KOI fish in my Patio

Posted: October 14th, 2013, 4:12 pm
by newton

Silver Carp are large fish not suited to shallow bodies of water, unless they are being factory farmed within intensive water keeping systems. Koi which are similar also grow on average 24" within a couple of seasons and a depth of at least 4 feet in domestic ponds is recommended for keeping successfully and their overall wellbeing.

Being an aquarist im sure you will be aware of the requirement to allow your water to cycle and mature before adding your full stock of fish. Often this requires the addition of an effective filtration system, detritus/fish waste removal and testing of the Ammonia, Nitrate to Nitrite cycle. Each step requiring its own time in turn within a captive body of water to neutralise to safe levels for animal life. Yes for some ponds this can take anything between 6weeks to 9 months before reaching full maturity. When fully stocked any alterations to the quantity of fish or dead and decaying matter including food and detritus can upset the balance requiring recycling again.

If it would help I can add a step by step guide with explanations to setting up and maintaining an outdoor pond for fish, I would try and tailor it for the Pakistan climate.